N-Banter Edition 5: A Changing Tide
Edition: September 25, 2003
Two minds...one site. Two motives...one goal. Two editors...one conversation. You have now entered a dimension unlike any other. This is N-Banter.
In this edition Jeff and Glen discuss a certain hedgehog's appearance in Billy Hatcher, the GameCube's recent price drop, and the milking of Zelda.
Jeff: I have yet to get my hands on the final version of Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg, but I am quite bothered by a recent news story I saw floating around. This is from TVG (www.TotalVideoGames.com):
"Yuji Naka has confirmed that Sonic the Hedgehog will make an appearance in the forthcoming GameCube platformer 'Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg.'
Its believed that Billy will meet Sonic whilst hatching a specific egg, and the pair of them will fight against the evil presence that has plunged the world into eternal night."
Is this a joke? It doesn't sound very realistic to me. I hope its not true.
Glen: Hmm, Im not sure. Sonic is pretty popular on GameCube so I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. Sega might be trying to guarantee that Billy Hatcher sells well. Attaching a brand that people are familiar with (Sonic) is one such way to do that.
Jeff: Yeah I suppose. But Billy Hatcher is Sega's first original platformer in years. To me, by shoving Sonic in there, Sega is admitting that it can't sell something without a popular character in it.
Glen: I dont know...just look, for example, how Nintendo is relying heavily on existing franchises for new games - Donkey Konga? It's probably not that Sega doesn't have the confidence that the game can speak for itself, but rather it doesn't hurt to have a little leverage including something people are familiar with.
Jeff: I have my qualms with Nintendos insistence on farming out its characters, but everyone knows that those are extensions of a franchise. Sega has been marketing Billy Hatcher as a totally new and innovative platformer. It just seems like it would spoil it to shove a mascot, like Sonic, in the game.
Glen: That article may simply be written misleadingly. Maybe they only meant to say Sonic would make a "cameo appearance."
Jeff: Lets hope so. I am okay with a cameo appearance but only if it is done in a way like Nintendo has done in the past. Like in Ocarina of Time how the owner of Lon Lon Ranch wears that Bowser Necklace. Things like that are cool. Or how Animal Crossing has an unlockable Mario Theme for your house.
Glen: Really? I never noticed the Bowser necklace. I'll have to check that out.
Jeff: Yeah, Nintendo shoves stuff like that into their games every now and then.
Glen: Sonic Team has done cameo appearances with Nights in Sonic Adventure and Phantasy Star Online. So it's really nothing new.
Jeff: Sonic cameo's?
Glen: Well, there's a custom Sonic the Hedgehog decal in F-Zero GX, I believe.
Jeff: Yeah but that is an acceptable form of cameo. Doesn't affect the story. Just enhances the customized car mode. Anyway, I just hope that the article in question is overstating the facts or, even better, making them up entirely.
Glen: Sonic may have very well originated from an egg. He is a blue hedgehog afterall. :P And he's always incubating those Chao eggs. Seems like more than just a coincidence.
Jeff: Bah.
Glen: I haven't read the news today, but have you seen anything on the supposed Nintendo retailer conference that was supposed to happen?
Jeff: I have checked a few sites. The only interesting story I have seen thus far is that the price of the GameCube is officially $99.99 now.
Glen: I'm hoping it's Nintendo officially announcing the 'Cube price drop, because if it isn't, then that could mean some bad things for the GameCube's future. If this whole price drop is primarily a retailer initiative, they're not going to be all that willing to continue stocking their shelves with the console. A price drop, after all, is used to get rid of extra stock.
Jeff: It is. Nintendo released a direct press release today regarding the subject.
Glen: Awesome. That makes me feel a whole lot better. This is something that will go in the record books.
Glen: Haha, GameCube and Game Boy Advance SP are the same price. What a joke. In Canada, Nintendo had to lower the price of the GBA SP along with the price of the GameCube so the GBA SP wouldn't cost more.
Jeff: Yeah, the GBA SP should be lowered to around $79.99 or $89.99 in all fairness.
Glen: Although there's no immediate need to because the SP will still sell very well, it is an indication of the lack of competition in the handheld gaming industry.
Jeff: Very true. But it is also an indication of just how low console prices are dropping due to competition - just how stiff the competition has become. A Nintendo system hasn't been this low so soon in its life for quite some time, if ever. I really don't know what to think of it.
Glen: Well, it might show Nintendo returning to its aggressive ways. It used to be the one to decide price drops. That stopped once Sony became the leader.
Jeff: True, but it is also a sign of desperation. Its kind of scary.
Glen: Well, they did have to stop production for a few months to clear out back-stocks. I'm not too worried about them though; they're still pulling in five billion in profits a year. It really angers me to see all these people in some of the larger gaming forums cheering for Nintendo to drop out of the console race. People dont realize how much that would be a sign that the gaming industry is going down the drain. High production values, movie licenses, and hype (ex. Enter the Matrix) - all of this 'crap' would win out over gameplay, passion, and old-fashioned games.
Jeff: I know! The day that Nintendo drops out is the day that I seriously wonder just how much influence gameplay has in an industry thats supposed to be built upon it. That is one of the many reasons I don't really visit many big gaming forums anymore. I, myself, am quite optimistic about the GameCube's future. There are many top-notch games coming out on the system in the coming months.
Glen: I am kind of disappointed that some games such as Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles have been delayed into next year. At the same time though, I couldn't afford them anyway, and will be glad to give developers a little more time to really create a polished gaming experience.
Jeff: Yeah, I kind of wanted Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes this year but now I can use that money to rent and perhaps purchase a few other quality games. I think XIII and Beyond Good & Evil show a lot of promise.
Glen: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to Beyond Good & Evil. I've wanted a really good adventure game since the GameCube's launch.
Jeff: Well, the GameCube has had some good adventure games.
Glen: Nothing too refreshing though.
Jeff: Well. Hmm. I suppose it hasn't had many that arent based on pre-existing franchises. Depends how you define an adventure game though. Metroid Prime and Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker felt like adventure games to me. But yeah I see your point. The Cube has been kind of lacking in that area.
Glen: Zelda. Yeah, and Metroid Prime as well. Metroid Prime felt so lonely though at times...I know that's how it's supposed to feel...but I want an adventure game in the vein of Skies of Arcadia. A game that is open-ended and takes place within a huge world chock full of interaction, people, and places.
Jeff: If Metroid Prime made you feel lonely, then it achieved its goal. Few other games can match the atmosphere of a Metroid game. I haven't really ever played Skies of Arcadia: Legends yet. I keep meaning to, but never get around to it
Glen: Yeah, it's definitely one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played. You definitely need to get your hands on Skies of Arcadia though.
Jeff: Yeah it appears so.
Jeff: So what do you think of the upcoming Legend of Zelda: The Four Swords for GameCube? Do you think Nintendo is milking the Zelda franchise and hurting it by developing games like Tetras trackers and The Four Swords?
Glen: Definitely. I'm hoping they simply bundle Tetras Trackers, Four Swords, and the rumored Zelda compilation into one game and call it quits, because really, enough is enough. The Legend of Zelda used to be something special. Now it's just another Pokemon.
Jeff: See I don't think of The Four Swords as a milked out Zelda. When I played the GBA version I found it just as engaging as any of the older Zelda games. The real difference was the inventive multiplayer puzzles and the mayhem that ensues when two to four people all think they are the heroes. I do think that Tetra's Trackers is kind of weird though. At most I think it should be a multiplayer addition to The Four Swords. To me, Nintendo releasing these games doesn't really degrade the integrity of older Zelda games in any way.
Glen: Yeah, you're probably right. But when you used to say, "Another Zelda's coming out!" you'd have everyone's ears. But now, it's just like, another spin-off. Nintendo is trying to make Link its next Mario. Next we'll have Zelda Golf, Zelda Tennis, etc. Hehe, okay, I'm exaggerating. But still
Jeff: The Four Swords is quite innovative. By saying that it degrades the franchise, as a whole, would be like saying that Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Final Fantasy Tactics Advance disgrace and ruin the purity of the Final Fantasy name. I just don't think Nintendo is trying to make Link the next Mario. For one thing, he is just as old as Mario. The Zelda series has been nearly as popular as Super Mario for many years now. When you say a new Mario game is coming out these days people still get excited, despite the millions of spin-off franchises Mario has. So I don't see how that really makes much sense.
Glen: I dont know... it doesn't seem like Super Mario Sunshine had as much of an impact as previous Mario games. Though, it is probably my favorite game in the series.
Jeff: That is because it was called Mario Sunshine and was relatively cheesy in its presentation (even compared to previous Mario titles). The gameplay was great but the atmosphere just didn't meld with the world set forth in previous Mario games. I think its mainly due to the setting and the fact that the gameplay failed to evolve much.
Glen: I thought the atmosphere was awesome. Although it would have been nice to include even more of the baddies used in past games. But you can't have everything.
Jeff: Yup. I imagine that the water pack was a turn off to some gamers as well. It was really the first game where Mario had no magic caps to give him special abilities. Thus, he didn't have many of the abilities people come to symbolize as distinctly Mario.
Glen: I thought the water pack was the best part of the game! Honestly though, I think the game audience simply isn't asking for games like that anymore, which is unfortunate.
Jeff: Now that's where I think you are wrong. Platformers still have life left in them. I believe it was the presentation of SMS that bothered people. Plus gamers are spoiled from the Nintendo 64 era. They assume that if a Nintendo game isn't revolutionary, it isn't good. The concept of evolution is considered a negative term to many. A franchise that doesnt revolutionize is thought of as stagnant and not worthy of attention.
Glen: Yeah, I suppose.
Jeff: But then again, you have stated in the past that you didn't really care for The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker and went so far as to say that it ruined the series for you. Yet I love the game. So part of the problem is that everyone expects something different from Nintendo. They get this vision of what a game will be like and if it doesn't meet that, it disappoints them.
Glen: I agree with that. I already had a vision in my head of what The Wind Waker would be like...and that's probably what ruined it for me. After Ocarina of Time, I envisioned where they would go with the series from there, and they've since gone as far off from that path as possible.
Jeff: See. I had a vision of what the sequel to Super Mario 64 would be like. None of that vision included a ditzy looking princess and a story revolving around a character I don't really care much about (Baby Bowser). To me, the way that Bowser was designed was also substandard. I have always pictured Bowser as a menacing foe. His role in SMS was laughable. But I feel totally different about The Wind Waker. I think that it marked the series return to its roots. The overall presentation was very powerful. It felt like a breath of fresh air to the series. The game had more character and a better story than perhaps any other Zelda game I can remember. The sense of exploration in the game is also something that really brought back a sense of fun to the overworld.
Glen: Yeah, that's something that Nintendo has strengthened this generation. It's child-like artistic style in its games. Both Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine demonstrate this. I didn't mind it at all in Mario Sunshine, but it really dampened my feeling about Zelda.
Jeff: Nintendo has been taking a lot of risks in its art direction in games. Every time you change something about a series so fundamental there are bound to be those that just can't relate to the new like they could the old no matter how good the game is.
Glen: Yeah, that's a very good point. Still, I really hope that the second GameCube Zelda takes us back to the "land" of Hyrule.
The only water I ever want to see again...is rain.
Don't agree with the positions taken by Jeff or Glen? Want to have your voice heard? Send questions, feedback, or even a bit of ranting to the revived N-Sider Q&A Mailbag.