N-Banter Edition 11: Reflecting on E3 2K5
Column by Jeff Van Camp, James Burns, and Cory Faller
Edition: 06-20-2005
Two minds...one column. Two motives...one goal. Two editors...one conversation. You have now entered a dimension unlike any other. This is N-Banter.
Three minds...one column. Three motives...one goal. Three editors...one conversation. You have now entered a dimension unlike any other. This is N-Banter.
In our first three-person edition, Cory, James, and I look back at E3 2005 and discuss the ups and downs. Topics of discussion include the Game Boy Micro, Nintendo DS, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Pokmon XD, Animal Crossing DS, and more.
Jeff: Let the three-way begin!
James: You guys have had some time to take things in...to absorb all the news (about a month now). What are your general thoughts about the pre-E3 conference, now that it's behind us?
Cory: Well initially I thought it was tremendously lame. Probably because I was spoiled by E3 2004. I didn't start to get excited about anything Nintendo was showing off until I started to over-think the game downloading service. Hell, now I'm at the point where I'd buy the Revolution even if it didn't play any new games.
Jeff: Like-wise. I was initially very disappointed. Solely because I wanted Nintendo to come out with all cylinders firing. Ive come to terms with it now and I can understand why they didnt.
James: I felt somewhat let down, but generally I was relatively satisfied with the show. Now that some time has passed, I actually feel that they did the right thing.
Jeff: I don't know if I'm as happy as you James, but I'm pretty excited. I hope that Nintendo comes out very organized (ala Xbox Live 2.0) on the Online Front.
James: I agree about the downloading service, too. I think that's really a hole in one.
Cory: First party games may be free to download, too, which sounds insane, but who knows.
Jeff: Maybe, but I doubt it. They might have an assortment of NES games for free, like the games they offered free in Animal Crossing or something. But all the big games will cost you. The NES classic series has taught us that
James: Yeah, Nintendo hasn't decided about pricing yet. They seem to suggest that their own stuff might be free, third party stuff may not be. But who knows where they'll go with that. I just hope it isn't expensive.
Jeff: Nintendo is a business. It costs money to host all those games. I just don't see them giving away a ton of games.
James: Of course. That's true, but it also costs them money for online play servers, yet that's free. If it's all pay-only though, I just hope that they keep the prices reasonable. Price is the thing that could keep it niche, versus having a lot of people using it.
Jeff: Perhaps theyll give away games as gifts for purchasing say Mario Revolution or something, but not just for free out of nowhere. Maybe it will be a system where people get like 10 free credits for buying a revolution and more for each game they buy.
James: Yeah, like Mario Club in Japan. I think that would be an interesting idea actually.
Jeff: Yeah. I honestly think it's a great idea. It keeps people buying new games and also very interested in games of the past. If you have say 3 credits to download free games and you already have a bunch of the major older games, perhaps you will choose to download a lesser known game.
Cory: Yeah. There are a lot of great business models Nintendo could run with for the service.
James: Whichever way they go, there's no doubt that it adds a lot of appeal for Revolution.
Jeff: Indeed.
James: I know plenty of people who haven't played many games since the SNES days, so Revolution has that kind of appeal.
Jeff: Hah, it could actually lead to original games being developed for SNES or NES. Though I doubt it. But if the market was there...who knows. Nintendo does like to cash in on easy to develop games.
James: Another thing is, it may make previously unreleased games a reality. For example, games that didn't come to Australia or America (or Japan). Those markets may possibly have access to certain games via this system.
Jeff: Doshin!
Cory: Yeah. I'd love to see Sin & Punishment on there. Or perhaps unfinished games. Star Fox 2 comes to mind.
Jeff: Star Fox 64 is Star Fox 2.
James: If you can get Sin & Punishment on download, why wouldn't you buy a Revolution? Especially if you can also get some other niche games that weren't worldwide releases.
Jeff: That game did look pretty cool.
Cory: Sin & Punishment was one of the best damn games on the N64.
Jeff: One of my mailbag questions was whether the Genesis might be emulated
James: That's an interesting idea, it would be nice. Haha. It's not like Sega would have anything against that in particular, in the sense that they aren't pushing hardware anymore. But it may affect the pricing model or something.
Cory: I heard some people talking about that too, though it's completely insane.
Jeff: Perhaps, but it would be a lot of money for Sega and Nintendo might make a dollar or so off of each game downloaded too. So it might be worth it. It certainly wouldn't harm Nintendo. If anything it would only increase their appeal to classic gamers.
Cory: But we know it'll never happen. It's the same reason sonic wasn't in SSBM.
Jeff: I never thought I'd see Sonic on GameCube or GBA, but that happened.
Cory: The whole idea is that it's a showcase of Nintendos past. Showcasing their competitors doesn't really fit into that.
Jeff: It's access to the largest library of past games. Someone else could theoretically get a hold of Sega and tap into that if Nintendo doesn't, should the whole downloading concept take off.
James: I don't think it's particularly against Sega or Nintendo's interests, I just wonder about the financial aspect. There would be some significant licensing questions. And Sega probably do reasonably well with their constant re-makes and re-releases.
Jeff: They do well on Nintendo systems. Sonic Mega Collection sold best on GameCube. So technically with backward compatibility Sonic is already available for Revolution.
James: Anyway, what were your thoughts on Game Boy Micro? That seems to be another hot topic from E3.
Jeff: It desperately needs an MP3 player built in, though I read they might package the Play-Yan adapter with it. That would give me an actual reason to buy it.
Cory: I'd be more inclined to buy one if there were ANY GBA games on the horizon that I plan on buying. After Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones came out, the system became dead to me.
James: I think packaging Play-Yan with it would be the way to go, honestly.
Jeff: It needs MP3 playability, in my book. And they need to re-release Tetris so I don't have to play the DX version (for Game Boy Color) that sticks out the bottom of my GBA.
James: I think, for what it is, GB Micro is a cool product. But there's no question that it's just a kind of cash-in. Hopefully it will attract some people who haven't yet picked up a GBA (but who is left?).
Jeff: If I had an MP3 playing Game Boy my life would be solved. It will probably retail for $99.95 though.
Cory: The SP, as an upgrade, was great because there were still new GAMES that I'd play on it. The micro is another neat upgrade, but I just can't bear to upgrade hardware that I'll never ever use. Gimme a smaller and slicker DS and we'll talk.
James: I've never been much of a Game Boy player, but GBA SP really did reinvigorate my interest in Game Boy. Having the light was crucial.
Jeff: Cory has a point though. Nintendo itself is predicting a decline in SP sales and software, solely because it is making no new games.
James: Yeah absolutely. Being able to play Game Boy games on my DS is also a big factor for me. Since I can do that, I have little reason to buy a GBM, other than sheer portability. But I guess I'm not really the one that the system is aimed at.
Jeff: Unless you are 11 - 15 years old and on the go then no.
James: Still, it does seem pretty cool. I doubt I will buy one, but it'd be interesting to try it out in person. I am a fan of the general design.
Jeff: It's very thin. It didnt look it when I first saw it, but its pretty sleek. I am in need of an MP3 player that isn't a 300 dollar iPod. Nintendo missed an opportunity in my book.
James: There are plenty of non-GBA options for you, Jeff. ~_^
Cory: Slight tangent here, since we're on the handheld topic. I don't understand how the GBA went this long without an original Mario platformer
Jeff: Haha. Yeah, that's an interesting point.
Cory: I mean, the DS is getting one now, sure, but I want a standard-styled sprite-based Mario platformer.
James: Thats partly why I'm so excited about New Super Mario Bros.
Jeff: They repackaged four Mario games though. They haven't actually made an original Mario platformer in 14 years.
James: Yeah, I was somewhat disappointed with the first Mario Advance. I remember getting the system and thinking how cool it was. But playing an old game on it...it lost some excitement.
Cory: The DS one will be great, I'm sure, but the 3D nature of it seems...odd to me. It seemsloose.
Jeff: Most of these games are relatively new to kids these days. Yoshi's Island is still a title that I'm only now playing for GBA. Missed the boat back in the SNES days.
James: You're right, Jeff. But that doesn't help me. Although your point is something that I think a lot of older gamers do forget. The thing that encourages me about New SMB is primarily that impressions so far are very positive.
Jeff: I know, but we aren't the target market for the GBA. Pokmon kids are.
James: I disagree with that entirely. GBA has a much broader target market than, say, GameCube. You'll find that a large segment of GBAs audience is the older crowd. And females.
Cory: I don't know about that. The GBA, as a concept, isn't embraced in public by the older crowd. No matter whether people want to play or not, they still don't necessarily want to be SEEN playing a Game Boy. Consoles, whateverit's in your own home, but handhelds are typically used in public places. At least conceptually.
Jeff: In general, Nintendo has a varied audience, but I'd say the GB brand skews young.
James: I don't know about the concept, but I know that GBA does well largely because it sells to a wide variety of people. I think that GBA is primarily aimed at the younger crowd, but part of its success over the years comes from its very diverse customer base. I can tell you right now - and I think many can say - they have parents or grandparents who play GB and not other home systems.
Cory: That's the whole idea of the GB micro, according to Nintendo: that maybe people wouldn't be afraid to whip it out anymore.
James: Yeah, I think that is true.
Jeff: I, honestly, wouldn't be as afraid if it had MP3 playback.
James: But regardless of concept, I think we know that the audience is based on what Nintendo has said about the sales of the system. And probably based on our own experience too.
Jeff: To be fair to James though, GBA sold as well as PS2. It can't be only kids buying it. There are a lot of closet gaming adults that enjoy the 2D nature of the system.
James: That's right. And GBA is famous for attracting a wide variety of audiences. Whether or not they are in public, a lot of adults and women are buying the system, according to sales data. The parent/grandparent example from earlier is something I think many of us can relate to.
Jeff: It's probably a more balanced lot than any other system's audience.
James: Yeah, that's my point. It goes across a wide age range. And bridges the gender gap like no other.
Jeff: Part of what I love about Nintendo.
James: Let's talk games, though. I would ask you what GameCube game from E3 interested you the most...But, bar some huge surprise, I expect I already know the answer. Haha.
Cory: I WONDER.
James: So to get more specific, what do you think about Zelda from what you know?
Jeff: Uh oh. I see Cory talking for 20 minutes.
James: Haha. Maybe we should just point out the key things.
Cory: Ha, I know a relatively average amount. I'm on a half-blackout. All I have to say is that its super-neato and I'll be playing it with my balls. That is all.
James: Good stuff. At first I have to admit that I was a little disappointed about the move to more realistic visuals. But I like the art style a lot.
Jeff: I was very excited from the trailer and footage shown at E3. It looks to have even more trademark Zelda polish than usual.
James: The more I see it, the more I notice how fleshed-out everything is. Yeah, polish is definitely the word.
Jeff: I hated how it all looked in the still photographs. Seeing it all in motion, it works.
James: I'm also pleased to hear about orchestrated music playing a role, I think that's a very nice move.
Jeff: Horse combat looks fun and intuitive. As much as I can assume from seeing the video and reading Travis and Chriss super N-Depth article on the game at E3, at least.
James: Yeah, I have heard good things about the horse combat.
Cory: I still don't think it's up to the quality of the horse animation in Shadow of the Colossus, but still kickass regardless.
James: Shadow of the Colossus...that's a whole other story! Haha. That's another one to watch out for.
Jeff: Yeah, that game looks very cool as well.
James: I can't help but feel that someone is reading my mind. I swear I had the idea for that game long ago, haha. The same thing happened with RE4. It's scary, but nice.
Jeff: That game is basically just 18 boss fights. It's pretty sweet.
James: Yeah, I love the concept of having an enormous enemy as both a boss and a level of sorts.
Jeff: But okay, besides Zelda, what impressed you guys?
James: I am pretty interested in Battalion Wars. Everything I've read about it seems quite positive, which is nice to hear. And I'm intrigued to know how it will balance RTS-style gaming with the idea of controlling one character at a time. The concept seems a bit messy to me, but the impressions I've read reflect something that seems quite intuitive.
Cory: On the Cube, I honestly wasn't overly impressed by anything other than Zelda. Nothing new, at least.
James: Yeah, I have to agree with that pretty much. Although, I will say that Mario Strikers looks great.
Jeff: As much as I hate to say it, Super Mario Strikers looked pretty fun to me.
James: Yeah. Say what you will about Mario being everywhere, it looks fun. I like the idea of a crazy Mario-themed soccer match, with shells flying everywhere.
Cory: Yeah, it certainly looks fun.
Jeff: Its art style and general direction appealed to me more than a lot of the Mario Sports games.
Cory: It's definitely a lot more "hardcore." The art is all jagged and violent, and the game itself seems brutal.
Jeff: I can't wait until 2006 when we get Mario Hockey and Mario Basketball...
James: It looks to me like it could have a frantic type of gameplay, like Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. If they pull that off well, it looks like it could be a pretty addictive multiplayer game.
Jeff: Exactly James, though not as deep as SSBM. SSBM has so many variables that it never gets old. But yeah, Super Mario Strikers really seems to embrace the world of Mario to a greater degree than most of the games. I like that they aren't just using the same models from Mario Tennis and Golf. Those games need some variety in style and presentation.
James: Yeah, the art for Strikers does seem to go a bit further. I like what I've seen though.
Cory: It seems like the game's less about soccer and more about kicking the ever-loving shit out of your opponents. Hell, even the sidelines electrocute you.
James: That's partly why it looks so fun, haha. I really liked what I saw on video. The concept of being able to kick different Mario-esque objects around seems interesting anyway.
Jeff: I'm just going to say it's the first Mario sports game I'm considering for purchase in quite a while. I count Mario Party in that loop.
James: Same here, Jeff. It seems to me that the real star of the show, in terms of playable software (and other than Zelda), was Nintendo DS.
Jeff: The DS had a great show. I was really impressed.
James: I was surprised at PSP's apparently fairly weak showing at E3. Nintendo DS seemed to impress everybody.
Cory: I worry about Animal Crossing DS. I mean, it's got new stuff -- new items, new little features, etc etc. But it still seems like the same old game. I won't be able to bear paying off my house all over again.
Jeff: Yup, it still looks like AC for GCN to me.
James: I have to agree with that, frankly. I'm hoping that there are some fundamentally new things. The online functionality is interesting, because I sort of wondered...what else can you do, other than chopping down trees, chatting and trading items?
Jeff: It's kind of the same situation Harvest Moon is in. They need to do something new.
Cory: Yeah, the online seems pretty limited as is. I hope they can do more with it.
James: If they only take what you can do now and build on that a little...then it seems to be a little pointless. At the end of the day, if Wi-Fi play only eliminates the need for passwords...then I'm not entirely sure how interested I'll be. Right now I'm more interested in New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart DS. I am impressed by the amount of stuff they are packing into MKDS.
Jeff: Then again, relatively few people bought AC for GameCube. The DS has a much broader potential audience. So perhaps not as many changes are needed.
James: That's true, if I didn't own AC on GameCube I'd probably pick up the DS version.
Cory: Yeah. Animal Crossing needed to be more of a MMO [Massively Multiplayer Online game] than just the GCN game with Wi-Fi instead of passwords. We needed people to be simultaneously living in the same town, not just visiting other ones. There is so much potential in certain franchises for things like this, and it sickens me when companies don't even TRY to fulfill it. I see the potential, but I know EXACTLY where the development's going to goand its the complete opposite direction.
Jeff: They can't really get too MMO though without charging people.
James: If you can share a town with friends that would be great. I don't think it needs the depth of something like EverQuest or whatever, but there are some interesting things they could do with it on DS. I still like the idea of carving your own furniture with the stylus. Or using the stylus to design your own house (to actually build it, not just upgrade a pre-existing thing).
Cory: Pokmons the biggest offender of all, in terms of not using a franchise's potential. Pokmon XD makes me sad. Supposedly it's going to be a "fully-fledged RPG!", but I see it using the exact same mechanics as Pokmon Colosseum. What the hell about XD is going to make it more "fully-fledged" than Colosseum?
James: Wow, it's funny you mention that. Pokmon XD is the first Pokmon game that interests me since the first game, haha. Instead of getting proper RPGs like the original GB versions, we've been getting all of these battle games that I have no interest in.
Cory: To be blunt, I absolutely DESPISE the "snatch" system pioneered in Colosseum. It feels unnatural and frustrating. I got to the point where if I found a dark pokmon I could snatch, I'd just kill it and move on.
James: I have not played it, but my understanding was that Colosseum only added RPG elements. But that it wasn't a full RPG first and foremost, in the same vein as the original Blue and Red. I've always thought, when playing Blue version, that they could do that so well in 3D.
Jeff: ): I haven't played a Pokmon game since Red in 1997. It was very fun and I loved it. Every game since hasn't changed it up enough to interest me. I don't want to re-collect all the pokmon and even more. I want something new. New battle mechanics.
Cory: Well the things they could add to Colosseum to make it a "real" RPG aren't things that will remove the fundamental flaws that were built into the game. Now it'll just be a fully-fledged flawed RPG, instead of a half-assed flawed one.
James: But are they building it on Colosseum? I mean, I thought they were basically doing a new game, more based on the traditional RPGs.
Cory: From what I've seen so far, it looks identical to Colosseum. It still uses the snatch mechanic, which eliminates an enormous chunk of the gameplay mechanics from the GB editions of the games.
James: Oh okay.
Jeff: It is being made by the same team as Colosseum, I believe. And it has dark pokmon like Colosseum.
Cory: Yep. I understand the idea of breaking away from the "catch all the wild pokmon" option. The dark pokmon idea was an attempt at that, but I don't think it was a very good attempt, is the problem.
Jeff: Definitely a bad one.
James: If it ends up being something I'm more interested in, then I might buy it. But if it is just built on Colosseum, it might not be so appealing.
Jeff: Here is what I want. I want to be Ash and play a game akin to Pokmon Red and Blue on GameCube except with a new form of battling. Mario & Luigi has kind of made me like real-time stuff in turn-based battles. Maybe that would work. The gotta catch em all mechanic is still something that is appealing. It's having to battle with an outdated system that bothers me. It isn't flexible enough for today.
James: I basically agree with you, Jeff. When I played Red and Blue I felt that it would have made a good 3D game. Over time I sort of wondered why Nintendo never made that obvious choice.
Cory: There are fans of the franchise that SWEAR by the pokmon mechanics, though. The battling system, leveling up system, etc. That's the system I want to completely redo more than anything.
James: I would tend to add a bit more to it and provide some flexibility
Jeff: Pokmon 3D would be better on Revolution, since Nintendo will be able to make grass. Wild Pokmon grass!
Cory: Yes... the grass is a necessity.
James: Nothing like some good grass. Wind Waker continually reminds me of that.